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tv   Face the Nation  CBS  October 14, 2012 5:00pm-5:30pm PDT

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>> schieffer: joining us on my right, romney campaign adviser bay buchanan. bay, good to have you. republican pollster, frank lutz. plus cbs political director john dickerson, and over on the left, where they're very comfortable, david corn who write for "mother jones" the author of a new ebook called "47%," uncovering the romney video that rockedly the 2012 election. david, of course, is the one who broke that story. and also with us today, katrina vanden heuvel of "the nation" magazine. i want to talk about this libya thing and see what you all think is the political impact of that in a minute. but frank luntz is here, and you did some very interesting research on the vice presidential debate. bring us up to speed on what that was. >> we have done three sessions and they all concluded the same thing, that joe biden did well on the substance, but they were
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so angry with his style and want more that you split screen the two of them where they could see biden's interruptions and smiling and the laughing, it's funny i actually wrote down on my note, don't interrupt and don't smile. they didn't want that from the vice president. and he could have gained points. but not a single person in any session switched. there the previous debate, we had about a third our group switched. >> schieffer: when you say your sessions, what were these focus groups? what exactly was this? how are you measuring this? >> we take undecide voters in a number of dyfferent cities in the key swing states b30 people, and they react second by second, using dials. in and in almost every biden's style scores did better than ryans and yet when you startlet discussion the first thing they said is, "why was he interrupting? why was he seeming to go overboard? he was passionate but he went too far." >> at the risk of interrupting, you know, what strikes me about this with romney, for example,
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is we're not about to pick the head of a yacht club. we're electing a president, right. so in terms of substance, you have a presidential candidate who has a secret plan. he's going to cut taxes 20% across the board, $5 trillion, but won't tell us how he'll pay for it. to me, this is insulting to the american people. and this is not, in my mind, a theater performance, bob. i mean, we are sitting here-- we're going to talk polls and strategy and debate performance, but this is th isn't show business. this is about leadership and who will lead this country in the next century. >> allow me one point on this, though, which is that if you can't cooperate in a debate setting with your opponent, how can you cooperate with congress? how can you work with the other side? and that's what they pointed out. it wasn't his performance that bothered them. they feel that barack obama can't work with congress, and so if you vote for him again, you're going to get four more years-- >> you did some independent survey after the biden-ryan debate, and one of the things you found was people liked what ryan said about the ability of
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romney to work with the democratic legislature in massachusetts. >> correct. >> well, kudos to the 87% of the democrats in the state legislature who were willing to work with an opponent in service of a country and a state which we haven't seen from the republicans who have been so obdestructionist the last few years. >> basically what we learned from the first debate and i think the second debate is going to reinforce that message, there is a huge, soft, underbelly of any kind of support for barack obama, that we could take-- that a woman's-- the ladies' gap of 18 points and close it in 90 minutes, close it and to move to a 12-point swing. it tells me americans are looking for something. they are now decided that if there is something better, they're going to go there. and they saw mitt romney and they saw somebody who is a serious, thoughtful, very, very well prepared, knowledgeable, somebody who can lead and have a plan. and he set it all out there, and the people responded. and where i think biden was-- made his mistake is they may have said, okay, he's
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knowledgeable. but what did ryan say? ryan said i am another thoughtful, very, very knowledgeable and determined to turn things around. and he sent that same message of leadership that can make a difference-- >> ro the romney-ryan ticket have a built-in advantage. the economy is not going the way anybody wants. they have been struggling for months and months. they put ethics their web site, and position papers but one reason i think romney did so well in first debate is he ran away from any specific he himself has put out. he won't talk as katrina mentioned how you do the tax plan. when he does a foreign policy speech as he says is, "i'll be tougher than barack obama" without saying what he will and endorses most of barack obama's foreign policy. so what we're getting a lot from quar campaign-- you guys are really good at this. i don't work for a campaign so it's not kind of an even fight here-- from your campaign a lot of top-line rhetoric-- i'm
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strong, he's weak, i can make the economy better. he can't, without either filling in the specifics-- >> the specifics are there. >> go back to the one thing-- >> how to create jobs. >> go back to the one big issue, the big tax cut plan. he will not say how to pay for it. in fact they say over and over again we don't want to give that away. it's like it-- you remember nixon's secret plan-- you remember nixon's secret plan to end the vietnam war? it didn't exist. he just said he had one, and we see the same thing. you guys are so smart. if paul ryan is such a smart guy, he should be able to explain this. >> listen, we do know one thing, that breum has no defense of his-- barack obama has no defense of his record and no plan whatsoever for the future. number two-- >> you don't like it. he's put legislation forward-- >> mitt romney has laid it all out there. he said it's the loopholes. he's given different ideas and possibilities and he will work who democrats to come up with answers. the bottom line, just as in massachusetts, he is going to
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put this country on a balanced budget and he's going to be a neutral. >> schieffer: i'm going to ring the bell here and go back to your cornerrers, and i'm going to go to referee john dickerson here. >> the voice of reason! >> context. what was happening in this debate, this vice presidential debate, when we got there, democrats were feeling dispirited they wanted to see the kind of passion from joe biden that we're seeing from david corn about these issues because they feel like they're getting mugged by the romney campaign. so the response was from biden to mug to the camera because they wanted to send kind of this message of can you believe this guy, at least to reset the democratic party. now, what about the swing voters? i think they're going to make the decision on the top of the ticket, which leaves a huge question for what's the president going to do? is he going to take this behavior of biden's and put some reasoning behind it? is he going to say, he's my kind of-- spouse say little over-heated-- but here is the actual reasoning behind it? and that's the job for the president. otherwise, you just consider this unfocused, kind of sputtering, and that's not going
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to-- >> can i bring it back-- >> schieffer: let me just ask john one more question here. there's no question and the polls reflect that romney helped himself in his debate. you heard what frank luntz just said about that kind of instant poll that he ran. but are you seeing any polling yet that suggests that the vice presidential debate made any difference in the race, not on who won or lost? >> no, not really. i think we see, you know, this-- the race overall now in the national polls you see the average of them romney's up by a point or two. he was behind by three points or so before that denver debate. in the battleground states some have turned -- colorado, florida is looking better, ohio is a little tighter, the president is still up there. that's all because of denver. i don't think we've seen anything in this-- the debate field like it went into the automatic sorting machine of this election where we already had, the right took from it what they wanted the left took what they wanted, and the swing voters may have been a little offended by biden but they're not going to make their decision--
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>> schieffer: i'm going to ring the bell for round two. >> bab bay brought up women and the gender gap which i think will be critical and what i'd like to hear in the next debate and we haven't heard it from the president or vice presidential debate so far, women in the context of economic security and their health. take a page from the playbook of elizabeth warren who has made that link and speak-- president obama needs to speak to how social security, medicare, medicaid, obamacare, work for women. work for women to control their economic security and destiny in a very volatile, difficult, economy. i hope we hear from that. we haven't heard from women's voices. and i think in the shrinking democracy we live-- in we only have nine swing states, and in each how many are we competing for for voters. i think you need to speak to the women, particularly the noncollege-educated white women who will be key in ohio and those key states. >> i think that's where the vice
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president really hurt his ticket is because as women looked at that debate, there is nothing that is more offensive to us than to see a man constantly interrupt and be offensive and boorish in his behavior and have no respect for somebody trying to have a legitimate debate. i haven't talked to a woman who hasn't looked at that debate and not responded and said that was just awful and obnoxious. when you say-- >> bay, i talked to women who didn't have that reaction. including my mom. so the list-- you're drawing out what you want to draw out. >> i talk to a lot of women who are apolitical. i just know that women do not like that. but the second point, i agree that the debate itself, whoever won or lost that, is not going to change the vote. but what remains in their mind is who the serious ticket here? who are the two candidates that are really going to address the issues? and i think the two debates have shown without question it's romney and ryan. >> schieffer: let's let frank talk. >> you've got this ideological chasm right here at this table, and that's not what these last
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4%, 5% want. they actually don't want the yelling back and forth, with all due respect to all of us here. they're not voting based on philosophy. if they were they would have made up their minds already. the two of them don't agree on much. they're voting on character. they're voting on which person they think understands them and feels for them. and i'll show you. barack obama understands and empathizes, but he can't solve their problems. mitt romney, they perceive, can solve their pressures but they're not yetquenced whether he understands them. if romney can prove empathy, he wins. if obama can prove problem solving, he wins . the case is easier at this point for romney than obama. >> i kind of agree with you. i think what we're playing at this point in the game, everybody feels strongly as katrina and myself, and bay knows yourself who they're going to vote for, who they want to vote for. we're playing between the 48-yard line in a football game, a little margin here, a little marge thin. and i do think that's why the 47% tape-- which i'll take some credit for-- really showed a
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lot. and i think that's why biden came back to it. i do think in the debate ahead, talking to people in the obama camp, obama is going to try to remind people that there is a gap between what romney said in the debate and what he has or hasn't said previously. so he says, yeah, i'm for preexisting conditions, too, which is to get to the empathy issue that you're talking about. actually he's not for that. when he says trying to be more moderate, i'm not going to do anything to threaten abortion and his campaign has to come out-- >> i think that's where obama sees the opportunity. >> in the town hall debates, if that's the strategy barack obama takes he will lose that debate and this is why. romney will then say, "you were asked a question about where you stand and you turn and attack me, and that's all that you do." >> i don't think he doll that. do that. i disagree with frank on one thing. you describe us as ideological.
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i will argue common sense. we're talking about returning tax rates to where they were under the clinton era. we're talking about tax rates that reagan would have supported. we're talking about economic security that millions of people believe in in terms of support for medicare and social security what franklin delano roosevelt built in this party. the republican party today wants to repeal and roll back the new deal and the civilizing advances of the 20th century. simply that. >> schieffer: we have to take a break for a commercial so we get paid. we'll be right back in one minute with more. and every day since, we've worked hard to keep it. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help people and businesses who were affected, and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy -- and many areas are reporting
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why is that? and why is it we no longer have national elections to elect a president? we have elections that come down to six to nine battleground states. why is that, john? >> the partisanship is because people, you know, have passionate feelings. those who are in the middle get turned off by conversations will the way-- >> schieffer: but people have always in america been passionate. >> well, but they've moved, you know, between parties on various issues. i mean, we now-- now they're passionate and line up with a single party, and, you know, it's just the parties-- you now have a situation where the most liberal republican is still more conservative than the most conservative democrat, and so people-- if that's the party that you're sorting to, then that's where people end up having off. any politician who might be attractive who leans and goes over towards the other party and might get some people who find them attractive, they don't exist anymore. >> schieffer: we used to have conservative democrats and liberal republicans. and then we had conservative
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republicans-- >> there are far more liberal democrats in congress i think there are far more conservative democrats. you have the whole blue dog coalition than liberal republican. >> not so much anymore. >> the trend line is right. but think-- you know, i would argue-- and norman-- thomas mann wrote a whole book about it, they would argue they think the republican party has gotten more to the right than the democratic party has been throat, and it'sthode, you know, the inability to have bipartisan compromises. >> in context, there's no politician for a person in the middle to go latch on to. there's no-- the people don't exist to go rally upon. >> schieffer: what's your thought? >> it's 97% to 98% of all ads are now negative. so all you are told is why your opponent is a fool, is incompetent, or worse yet, a liar. and so are you supposed to then function as a democracy when 97% of it-- and it's awful. and it works. >> you remember-- >> i disagree on one point
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here. i think-- there's no question i was in the reagan campaign, and it was nasty. the primary was nasty. general election was nasty. it couldn't be any-- any uglier description of the man who eventually won. but because of his personality, he was the kind of guy that just bring you on over. bring tip over. let's have a drink. let's have a laugh. he was able to bring not only the country together but democrats and republicans and he forced solutions. he just forced it through. and i think that that's what we need. we need a leader who will bring the country together-- >> barack obama has-- >> katrina-- >> bob, you've lived politics for many years. let's not get nostalgic about how ugly it is. we have seen the money pour in which hassasmed up thades. we have one party that is an extremist party. the democratic party remains a coalition in many ways. >> oh, my god! >> i think president obama-- and we have had our agreement on president obama's policies--
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kyle to the city intent on trying to find compromise. and he found senator demint and senator mcconnell who said their first priority was to take them down. it was the first major piece of social legislation which passed-- correct me if i'm wrong-- without a single opposition party vote. i think we're looking at a redistricting. the flood of money posted since citizens united. demographic shifts and i would like to see a real republican party, but we don't have one at the moment. we have an extremist republican party. there are-- the moderate republicans are an and i think breed. and i think that is dangerous and unhealthy. >> it's interesting that you're concerned about the republican party. i think that's very, very engaging of you, but you know what? this republican party is as strong and energetic and excited about guiding and directing there country as i have ever seen it in 20 years. the energy out there is similar to what we had with reagan. there's no question it's more-- >> what? >> i was at the convention. >> i was at that convention. >> i didn't see anything
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resembling the type of energy. grass roots? >> we have a terrific-- we have a bench of terrific young leaders coming up. >> lindsey graham, who was on earlier, said in a moment of honesty, that we may not have enough grumpy old white men left soon to continue the party as it is. the demographic changes in this country are so powerful-- >> today's party-- >> right now, congress has-- democrats in the senate and republicans in the house, has a 10% job approval rate. qacoffee had a 14% rating and that's among the people who killed him. >> you're not advocate-- >> schieffer: i want to do my focus group. what happens next in the campaign and what does your person have to do and i'll start with bay, go down this way, and come back this way. >> we have to keep the momentum. we have enormous momentum across the board as is indicated in every one of these states. and what the governor has to do and will do is be exactly who he was at that last debate, be
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himself. get out there and let the american people know the kind of amazing leader, he has competence and experience and know-how to turn this country around and put america back to work. we doll it in the next two debates. >> and my person is not romney or the democrats. i come here as a cbs news analyst. the candidates have to address jobs and they have to address bipartisanship. they have to demonstrate that they have a specific plan because people in ohio, in wisconsin, in north carolina, in florida, are hurting. badly hurting. and the they're losing it because they're afraid of the future and they have to show they can work together, that there's some way for them to go across the aisle, and that will determine who the next president is. >> schieffer: i want to have john go last opinion. >> okay, i don't have-- i don't represent any campaign. i'm a journalist. i don't, bay. and you do. and i think for the president after the last debate, it's pretty clear he's going to have
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to show some vim and vigor and i think he's going to have to find a way to puncture what i think is the 11th hour conversion of mitt romney from a guy who had very extreme, very specific ideas until a guy just says i'm great. trust me. and who looks good and can play the part. and it's a town hall debate or the debate you're going to get to moderate down the road and with advertising and the ground game as well he's going to have to find a way to bring romney back to where he's been campaigning all exploong show he himself, barack obama, has specific ideas. >> i think president obama, i would agree with frank, has to speak about jobs and the pain there this country, feel people's pain. i think he has to speak with passion and engage am. engagement. i think he need to lay out what he will do but i also think he needs to expose the extreme makeover the mitt romney and point to the news of the lowest jobless rate since 2009. 500,000 manufacturing and auto industry jobs. and finally, i think he does need to speak again to women,
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and economic security, in a very important way. and those-- those are the key things. >> schieffer: let me just ask john, what do you expect in 30 seconds? the president will have to find a way to say, mitt romney doesn't care enough to be straight with you in the campaign. he's not going to care enough to be straight with you as the president. romney has to say they're tired and out of ideas. the only creativity you see is finding new people to blame. they play the video in libya, the a.t.m.s for the economy. they're out of ideas. the only creativity is pointing the finger of blame is what romney will argue. >> schieffer: we'll be back with thoughts from other people on what they think. ,,,,,,,,,,,,
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>> schieffer: the late night comics have played a larger role than ever in this campaign, and there was no better example than last week. and that is our "face the nation" flashback. >> congressman ryan, we begin with your opening statements. >> thank you. first of all, ( laughter ) i want to thank center college for hosting us this evening. >> oh, boy, here we go! ( laughter ).
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>> mr. vice president, i know you're flower a lot of duress to make up for lost ground but i think the people would be better served if we didn't keep interrupting each other. >> you don't scare me, sharpize. >> mitt, it's barack, are you watching the debate? >> no i'm watching breaking amish. >> we should play a drinking graham gamewhere every time biden says my friend and ryan won't give specifics about your tax plan i'll take a shot. >> that's an awful lot of milk to be drinking on a thursday night. ( laughter ) by the way, did you give biden any predebate advice? >> well, yeah, i just told him if you have no idea what you're talking about and can't think of anything to say just say the word "malarkey." here it goes. >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> i told the same thing to paul ryan, except i said, if you get confused just start making up
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countries. >> still coming in to zabal, kakunar, to all of these areas. >> nailed it! zabal, that was a good one. >> schieffer: the problem is i can't figure out which ones were the real ones. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... they can inspire our students. let's solve this.
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>> schieffer: well, that's it for today. next week, "face the nation" will be broadcasting from boca raton, florida, the site of the final presidential debate. hope to see you then, and thank you for watching. nz it's the little things in life that make me smile.
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